Out In The Mountains : News - Dean on Civil Unions : The OITM Interview Legislation

Dean, a Democrat, has served as Governor since 1991. Prior to succeeding Gov. Richard Snelling, who died unexpectedly in office, Dean served as Lieutenant Governor and represented Burlington in the Vermont House of Representatives. Dean, a physician, is married to Dr. Judith Steinberg, and has two children.

Gov. Howard Dean photo: Barbara Dozetos

As Governor, Dean has historically sided with Vermont’s gay and lesbian community. He is credited with helping pass, and ultimately signing into law, legislation prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. He also supported the extension of benefits to the domestic partners of Vermont State employees. In 1994, Dean appointed Bill Lippert, an openly gay man, to fill a vacant seat in the House of Representatives. As a result of the state’s new civil union law, national gay newsmagazine The Advocate recently dubbed him the “Dean of unions.”

OITM: Immediately after the Supreme Court’s Baker ruling, you sided with domestic partnership legislation. How did you come to make this decision and what role do you think your position played in the ultimate outcome of the debate?

Dean: I knew that marriage was impossible and that the legislature would just kill themselves. They couldn’t do it; they’d fall into terrible disarray. I thought the court decision left civil union as a legal alternative, which would grant the rights and the benefits, as they required. I thought that in time Vermonters would come to accept that. In the end, I think my position gave cover to a lot of people in the legislature. It really helped legislators who were struggling with the issue.

OITM: When you finally announced your position, you said that gay marriage made you “uncomfortable like everyone else.” Can you clarify what you meant by that and specifically what about gay marriage makes you uncomfortable?

Dean: The truth is that it is the politics that made me uncomfortable. (Personally) I’m sure that I have the same hang-ups that lots of people have on the issue. But it is a matter of equity. I remain convinced that of the 50 percent of people who are opposed to this, that half of those are fundamentally decent human beings and this is just a vast change for them that they’ve never considered before. I consider those people people who will ultimately accept the equality of gays and lesbians and stop marginalizing them. Those are the people that I have to speak to.

OITM: At times, you have indicated that your children have provided you with wisdom and insight into some issues. Have you discussed gay marriage with your children and how have they influenced your thinking?

Dean: They didn’t influence my decision in any way, because obviously I made a decision before we had a chance to discuss it. I made my decision one-hour after I found out what the court had said. I’d done a lot of thinking about it before. I wasn’t prepared for the court decision. I actually thought they were going to recommend gay marriage. But I have had frank discussions in the family about it. My conclusion is that young people are much more open-minded about this subject than people my age or people older than I am. They don’t struggle with the issue. There’s a tremendous amount of open-mindedness about gay and lesbian issues in the younger generation.

OITM: Supporters and opponents of the civil union legislation criticized your decision to the sign the bill in private. How did you come to make this decision?

Dean: The state was so divided and there was so much hatred. The majority wanted us to do one thing and the legislature did something else. I had said a long time ago that I was not going to do anything that was going to be “in your face.” The trouble with signing ceremonies is that sometimes they turn into we won and they didn’t. I don’t want to make that happen. We do really need to fundamentally bring the state back together again. We need to become one community. It doesn’t do anyone any good to have further divisions in the state. Had I to do all over again I would have signed it publicly (in front of cameras) but not had a signing ceremony.

OITM: How would you characterize the behavior of Vermont’s gay and lesbian community during the gay marriage debate?

Dean: Outstanding. First of all the plaintiffs were just the right plaintiffs. When I first met with (attorneys) Beth (Robinson) and Susan (Murray) and I was talking about their civil rights in a painfully political way, they weren’t getting defensive. That’s a very difficult conversation to have. They never took the position that it is my way or the highway.

The second thing is the decision they made early on not to bring in outside people. That was an incredibly smart decision. The Vermonters who didn’t want this bill never had a chance because their message was being overwhelmed by the hate message from Randall Terry. I think that helped the bill enormously. The perception of out-of-state groups coming in and telling us what to do really has an effect on the legislature. Legislators don’t like to be told what to do.

The third thing is that the gay and lesbian community has consistently been grateful. Usually in politics you struggle to do something for somebody, and the people who are helped by it quickly assimilate into their normal life and they forget about it. I was deeply touched by how many people came up to me to shake my hand and thank me. I was overwhelmed and really touched by how grateful people really are.

OITM: Some opponents of civil unions linked state funding for Outright Vermont to a larger “gay agenda.” How do you respond to this charge?

Dean: It is nonsense. This is politically motivated garbage. The reason there is funding is because I met with gay and lesbian teenagers and they said they had a real problem and needed help. Outright Vermont only goes into schools when the schools ask them. I have nothing to do with Outright Vermont going into schools. We just give them some money because we think their support services are valuable. The connection between state funding for Outright Vermont and some sort of homosexual agenda is just political crap.

OITM: What role, if any, do you think homophobia played in the civil union debate?

Dean: I hesitate to use the word because many people confuse homophobia with bigotry. A bigot is someone who deliberately manifests mean-spirited unequal treatment of people because of who they are. It is very difficult to deal with bigotry except with the law. We live in a culture that is somewhat homophobic. Homosexuals become a lightning rod for all kinds of fears for things that have nothing to do with homosexuals. The reason for that is that, especially in men, sexuality is a terrible struggle. It takes some insight to understand that your own projections on a group of people have to do with your concerns about sexuality. Homophobia is widespread; bigotry is not. There are a lot of people who are homophobic but are not bigots. Those people can be brought into an understanding that everybody is a member of this community regardless of their sexual orientation.

OITM: You’ve said that it is time for Vermonters to come together and heal. What specifically can the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered community do to help heal the divisions in the state?

Dean: Keep doing exactly what you are doing. The gay and lesbian community has comported itself with enormous dignity under terrible stress. Behave with dignity and understanding of those who are fearful. To the extent that they can reach out in a positive way to those who are fearful and willing to listen.

OITM: How do you feel about the decision by the plaintiffs to drop their lawsuit after the civil union bill goes into effect?

Dean: The legal stuff I don’t know anything about, but I think it is smart politically. I certainly think it is a wonderful gesture toward healing the state.

OITM: How might your support for civil unions influence your prospects for national office and how might it impact your reelection bid in November?

Dean: You can forget about that (national office). It certainly isn’t going to help it any unless someone is looking for someone who says what they think and sticks to their word. That’s not as valued in Washington as it is elsewhere.

There are a number of Democrats and a number of Catholics who I have lost the support of, and I need to get that support back. The biggest problem for me (in November) is (Progressive) Anthony (Pollina). Anthony is going to take votes away from me and he’s not going to take any votes away from (Republican) Ruth (Dwyer). So actually the better he does, the more likely it is that Ruth Dwyer is going to be Governor.

OITM: Do you plan to attend Vermont’s Gay Pride celebration on June 17?

Dean: I’ve never attended Gay Pride because it always coincides with a big soccer tournament that my kids are in. They always invite me, and I always say no because it is always the day of the Tom Lawson tournament.